SitePoint Podcast #192: The End 302j62

Episode 192 of The SitePoint Podcast is now available! This week we have the full current , Louis Simoneau (@rssaddict), Stephan Segraves (@ssegraves), Patrick O’Keefe (@ifroggy) and Kevin Dees (@kevindees) who are ed first by previous hosts Kevin Yank (@sentience) and Brad Williams (@williamsba) and then later by producers Karn Broad (@WebKarnage) and Carl Longnecker.Listen in Your BrowserPlay this episode directly in your browser — just click the orange “play” button below: this EpisodeYou can this episode as a standalone MP3 file. Here’s the link:SitePoint Podcast #192: The End (MP3, 02:11:04, 125.8MB)Subscribe to the PodcastThe SitePoint Podcast is on iTunes! Add the SitePoint Podcast to your iTunes player. Or, if you don’t use iTunes, you can subscribe to the feed directly. Episode SummaryIn this, the very last episode of the SitePoint Podcast, the extended of hosts and producers take a reminisce through their memories of the four years doing the podcast, what it has meant to them and how they will look back on it.Interview TranscriptPatrick: Hello and welcome to the final SitePoint podcast. I’m Patrick O’Keefe, and I’m ed by my usual cohosts, Kevin Dees, Louis Simoneau and Stephan Segravess. Gentlemen, as Michael Jackson once said, “This is it.” How’s it going?Louis: Hey, guys.Stephan: Hi.Patrick: Kevin, do you want to say something?Kevin Dees: I don’t know what to say.Patrick: Forget it. We’ll just skip you then. All right. So, we have quite a show planned for you today. We’re not going to do the stories. We’re not going to do the spotlights. We’ve kind of wrapped that up on the last episode for the final time. Instead, we’re going to be looking back at the past four years of the SitePoint podcast. We’re going to bring on some familiar faces from the past. Like former host, Brad William and Kevin Yank. And, just have a lot of fun reminiscing about the show, where it started, how we made the journey and finally where it ends up at.Stephan: Sounds like fun.Patrick: And without further ado, let’s go ahead and get this show on the road. We now have Brad Williams and Kevin Yank on our show with us back again. Brad, Kevin, welcome back.Brad: Hello.Kevin Yank: Hello.Brad: How’s it going?Patrick: It’s going good. You know this is the first time, we’ve had all six current or former SitePoint hosts on a single Skype call, on a single show, so hopefully, it doesn’t break the Internet with all this great awesomeness, manliness, and handsomeness.Kevin Yank: It’s like we never left. It’s the last one. What have you guys been talking about?Patrick: Nothing really. We’re just going to. We were waiting to talk about anything until we got you guys on here. So, I was just looking at the topics right now.Kevin Yank: No, I don’t mean this episode. I mean all this time since we left. Fill me in.Patrick: I don’t know. I don’t know. What happened? Well, there’s Internet Explorer. Right?Louis: Mostly Internet Explorer. Yeah.Patrick: Mostly Internet Explorer.Brad: So, you picked up right where we left off is what you’re saying.Patrick: Exactly. It’s all the same. So, you know, you mentioned where we left off and so you know, I think it’s fitting to start like where the show started and I put together a little bit of a timeline, back in the SitePoint forum. It’s a private forum there which I still have access to for probably a limited time. Pull out those spread. So, the first mention of the SitePoint podcast was June 27th, 2007. Okay? And Brad started a thread to ask if there was any interest in a site point podcast, not the SitePoint podcast but just a site point podcast. Brad, do you doing that? And what kind of your thought process was when you kind of had the initial idea?Brad: I do. Yeah. I mean it seems like such a world difference back then too, because I mean five years. I’m sure if any one of you guys or any one of the listeners think back what they were doing five years ago, it was probably a little bit different than what they’re doing today if not significantly different. For me, it’s significantly different. So, yeah, so I was actually doing a–well, when Patrick invited me on the show and kind of told me what was going on last week, I kind of went back in the archives and did a little digging too because I had forgotten how long this show had been around. And since you mentioned 2007, I mean that was, it was like a completely different time in my life of what I was doing. You know, I was IT director of successful e-commerce company. I had a nice cushy job. And then, you know, basically right around the time that we started the first episode was released, I moved to New Jersey. Basically left my job, moved to New Jersey, decided to start my own business. You know, it was pretty big change for me and it pretty much evolved around with the podcasts because the first podcast was just a few months after I moved to New Jersey. It was kind of an interesting timeline how the podcast lines up with that transition in my life, but at that time I was listening to a lot of different podcasters. There was a lot of tech podcasts out there. I really enjoyed listening to them all day long. That’s kind of where the idea came from, was hey, why doesn’t SitePoint have one? I mean there’s a lot of obviously a lot of really talented people on SitePoint from the staff to the community. So, I knew it could benefit from one for sure. So, that’s kind of where the idea came from.Patrick: And then I looked farther ahead and I found in November 2007, you started a thread to organize that podcast and for various reasons, jumping through different hoops, whether on our end or SitePoint’s end, or whatever, it didn’t really get going until July 11, 2008 when you started a thread to get it back on the burner. I don’t even what happened in a year’s time, but I don’t even know what the delay was for a whole year. Do you?Kevin Yank: I guess a podcast is a hard thing to get off the ground because you got to get a group of people all together to all have that critical mass of enthusiasm all at once and yeah, I guess it did take a year to wrangle the people, for people to let it slide and then feel the frustration of it not happening and then jump back on it. So, I don’t think a year’s out of the question for getting something like that off of the ground.Brad: It definitely takes a lot more work than people realize. And even more work than I realized when it first started. I was like, “Oh, they just sit around and talk about it. That’s easy.” Right? Well, it’s definitely more thought has to go into it than just jumping in front of a mike and talking. And I think we all learned that because I didn’t have really any experience podcasting when we started this. Kevin and Patrick, you guys might have had some experience or no? Or Stephan?Kevin Yank: No. Next to none. I had all the enthusiasm in the world, but none.Patrick: I hosted a show about community management for like 27, 30 episodes and that was about it. So, beyond that I hadn’t done any podcasting and I really . . .Brad: So you were really. Patrick, you’re the most seasoned out of the group.Kevin Yank: What am I saying? I had done some podcasting before. I did a little show with a friend of mine named John Corry. The show was called Lost Out Back. I don’t know if I’ve ever mentioned this on the SitePoint podcast. But the site is still up. It’s a lostoutback.com and it was kind of a funny, I like to think it was funny, comedy show about two guys living in Australia who are not from Australia. John was from Ireland. I was from Canada at the time and we were both dealing with the culture shock of learning to live in Australia and we did about ten episodes on that. So, it was short-lived, but I think we burned brightly at the time.Patrick: Is you mentioning that podcast sort of like somebody mentioning their first web site on GeoCities?Kevin Yank: The first web site on what?Patrick: Is he mentioning that podcast sort of like you mentioning, sort of someone mentioning they’re first web site on geo cities.Kevin: Yeah. Exactly. It felt that way.Brad: The web site looks like you’re first web site on GeoCities.Kevin: It’s still running on WordPress, and I’ve kept it up to date all this time.Patrick: Yeah. It’s funny because a baby takes nine months, but it’s reasonable that a podcast would take a year. But anyway, we, you know, just to follow that timeline. In October of 2008, we all agreed to do a show on Mondays at 7:00 p.m. I thought that was funny because we kept that time slot for the entire run of the show. Mondays at 7:00 p.m. through all the different hosts.Kevin Yank: Really? That’s amazing.Brad: That is. I didn’t realize that it’s stayed the same either, I can actually. I actually don’t what day it was on. But then you said that and it reminded me. I’m surprised you guys hadn’t changed it at some point.Patrick: Well, it’s been convenient for everyone except Louis.Louis: What’s that?Patrick: Mondays, the time we record, has been convenient for everyone except you. It interrupts your work day.Louis: Yeah. Well, I think it would have been the same with Kevin. It’s fine when it’s winter here and summer there because then it’s 9:00 a.m. here.Patrick: Right.Louis: Which is fine. But when the daylight savings switches then it’s 11:00 a.m. here which is in the middle of the work day. When I was working at SitePoint, that was really fine because I was, you know, it sort of fit in with the other stuff I was doing because I was doing a lot of web content to do with all this news as well. So, you know the research kind of fell into the same vibe. And I think that was probably the same with Kevin as well.Kevin Yank: Yeah. For sure.Louis: Because you left the show shortly after moving to [inaudible 00:07:38] full-time.Kevin Yank: Yeah.Brad: I the scheduling was always a bit interesting because there was, well, when we first started it was Patrick, Stephan and myself were in the U.S, and then Kevin was in Australia. So, we’re recording in the evening our time and Kevin’s early, not early morning, but the morning of the next day. So, which was basically, like you said, 9:00, 10:00 a.m. in a work day. On a Tuesday.Kevin Yank: Yeah. That’s why Louis and I are the only two who sound awake.Brad: You’re trying to get back to work and we’re trying to go to bed.Patrick: Yeah and also you always had the next day’s news always handy.Louis: Yes. Exactly.Patrick: That’s the last time.Brad: I think we used that joke every week for the first 100 episodes, but it’s kind of cool, or highlights a cool thing which is technology. You know, like even, I mean this was four years ago that we did this. I mean, just a few years prior to that it would have been really hard if not impossible to do it. You know, cross-continent like we did for as long as we did. So, I think it’s just really cool knowing that we were actually doing that. A lot of people, I’m sure you guys probably heard the too, they all thought we were at the same place at some point because we do that recording locally and then mash it together. So, the quality comes across way better than like a straight Skype recording.Kevin Yank: That’s falling out of fashion. A lot of the podcasts I listen to now, they record over Skype and you can hear the drop out sometimes and you can definitely tell that these people are not in the same place. I think it’s a testament to the quality, the ongoing quality of the SitePoint podcast that we continue to record locally and do an edit after the fact.Louis: I can’t image. It just seems crazy to me to not do that. But I mean, if you don’t have the luxury of being able to have someone working as an editor and no one who is doing the show is particularly savvy with audio editing, I guess it’s probably a bit of a challenge to get us sounding even half way coherent.Patrick: Yeah and it’s really a credit to the rapport that we’ve all had one with another. First, you know, when Louis ed and Kevin Dees ed, you knowing, having the ongoing rapport but also a credit to Carl Longnecker and Karn Broad who have produced the show, edited the show and made it sound like we are half way coherent and in the same basic vicinity.Kevin Yank: Shout out to the producers.Kevin Dees: Absolutely.Brad: Seriously. That’s tricky. Again, I’ve done some podcasts after SitePoint and, you know, we’ve never had the luxury of having a producer or someone to help with the audio. So it’s always been, like you said Kevin, kind of straight from Skype, and there is that quality loss from doing that, but at the end of the day if it’s between that and not doing it at all then, you know, people do it, which if fine, but you’re right. There is that quality loss.Louis: Yeah. I was amazed the first few times I heard the show, especially some interview shows, where I felt like I was kind of struggling to ask my questions and keep it together without umm- ing and ah-ing too much, and then I hear the recording after the edits and it sounds like a completely different person, because it was so, so cleanly edited that I sound like I’ve got it totally together. Yeah. It was pretty impressive.Kevin Yank: We need a super-cut of Louis falling apart.Patrick: That guys sounds like he knows what he’s talking about.Louis: Sorry, what’s that?Kevin Yank: We need a super cut of Louis ums, and ahs, and falling apart.Patrick: Oh, come on. It’s not that bad.Louis: Exactly. I’m sure if you cut it all together from the time I’ve been on the show it would be something ridiculous, like a day of umm, ah, umm, ah.Kevin Yank: What’s next on the timeline?Patrick: Well, October 15, 2008 we recorded the pilot episode, and what we did was actually we released it, and that was just me, Brad, Stephan. We recorded the pilot together as sort of a test, and released it for the SitePoint forum staff, the SitePoint staff. I don’t really too much about that. Stephan, do you have any memories about those times?Stephan: Man, I have no recollection whatsoever of the first show.Brad: This is pre-first show. This is the pilot.Patrick: So, we did the pilot. Yeah, yeah, the pre-first show. Yeah. I don’t know if you ever actually released that, but it was just us three, and we put that out for the SitePoint staff, and then Kevin Yank got on board.Kevin Yank: I hearing it. I Brad, you were the MC for that show?Brad: I think so.Patrick: Yeah.Brad: I quickly was replaced. I was happily quickly replaced.Patrick: You were the person who said hello, as I like to call it. The person who says hello for the…I think the first few episodes, and then we kind of slotted it over to Kevin Yank, but…Brad: Honestly, that’s a much better fit…I’m not the MC type of person, even if I do shows now I generally don’t like being that person. I like to kind of sit on the side and make comments rather than actually run the show. So, I mean when Kevin took that over I was happy, and Kevin, I mean you knocked it out of the park. You were a natural, and Patrick too. I mean Patrick I you did quite a few shows too. You guys are both, I think, naturally good at kind of running a show like that, which is a talent I’m lacking.Patrick: You’re too humble.Kevin Yank: I when Shayne Tilley, who was the marketing manager at SitePoint at the time, he came to me. As marketing manager, he was monitoring the forum and what the community was talking about. At the time, I had moved into kind of a development role. It would’ve been around the time that I was working on the SitePoint reference site and things of that nature. He came to me. He said “Listen, what’s your interest in being involved in a SitePoint podcast?”, and I said “I think it would be awesome. I had been saying for years that SitePoint needs a podcast, but I don’t think I can do it all by myself.” He said “Well, have a listen to this thing. It’s a pilot from the forum, and I think the guys could use a SitePoint voice, but this is happening with or without us. So, the question is, Kev, do you want to be on board, or do you want to watch from the sidelines?” So, I said “I totally want to be on board.” To this day, I still feel kind of guilty that you guys had the energy and the drive to get this off the ground, and I sort of jumped on board after the cart was already in motion.Patrick: You know, it’s funny you should mention that because Shane, I asked Shane for a comment for the show, and he sent me an email, and this seems like a good time to share his remarks, because it’s directly relevant to what you said. He said “I would like to on, not my sadness that the show is coming to an end, but how proud I’ve been of everyone that contributed to the show over the years. I still a meeting early on a Saturday morning for me, where the show was pitched by the original cast, the original theme music, the look on Kev’s face when I mentioned we were going to do a podcast without him. I could go on. In the office, we had been talking about a podcast for about 12 months before you ed me, and nothing had happened. When I went into the office the Monday after I approved the first episode, there was a look of horror on Kev’s face when I told him we were going to start a podcast without him. Suffice to say, he emailed you guys within a few minutes.”Brad: And the rest is history.Kevin Yank: Yup.Patrick: You know, different memories. Yeah, the rest is history. He says “190 plus episodes later, all I can say is congratulations at the end of a job well done.” He mentioned something about crickets, and maybe Brad, I don’t know if you this. He says “If I could make a request, can you please play the cricket sound effect that was oh so controversial many, many shows ago. The crickets, I can’t the actual episode, but it was around the time of the election. Kevin made a comment about it, and there was nothing but silence from the other host. Kev came to me with two versions, one with a cricket sound effect. After the uncomfortable silence, one without. Suffice to say, we went with the sound effect.” I have no idea what that’s about.Kevin Yank: It would have been in the first five episodes for sure, back when we were still stressing about little editing choices like that.Brad: Yeah. I that, but I couldn’t tell you what episode that was in. I do crickets getting-it wasn’t live though, right? It was in a post production the crickets were put in, I think.Kevin Yank: I think so. Yeah, yeah. Oh, absolutely.Patrick: Right. Yeah. We’ve never been technical enough to really have a sound board.Kevin Yank: If there are any SitePoint podcast superfans out there who can figure out what episode and time code that occurred at, I’m sure we would love to hear it again for old time’s sake.Patrick: Yeah, definitely. So, we recorded episode one on October 27, 2008 and released it November 10, 2008. So, that’s how it got started.Brad: You know, I was listening to the first episode earlier today, which is a blast from the past. You guys should check it out. You cringe only a few times, you know, it’s like. Obviously, it’s episode number one, but one of the funniest lines was in the first few minutes. I was kind of talking about what to expect and how the show is going to go in the format, and I think I mentioned that the show will be 30 minutes in length, 30 minutes. Every other week we’ll be 30 minutes. We’ll try our best to hit that mark. I don’t think we ever had a show come anywhere close to 30 minutes. Maybe the first one, and even that’s over 30 minutes.Kevin Yank: I that was my suggestion. I said we’re planning this podcast. If there’s one thing wrong with all the podcasts out there is that they waffle on and on for hours. I’m not going to name any names, but there are definitely podcasts out there that take 20 minutes to get past the sort of “Hey! We’re back for another show,” and you don’t even get to here word one about what they’re actually going to talk about until 15, 20 minutes into the thing. So, I was determined the SitePoint podcast would not be like that, and I think despite our lengthy run lengths over the years, I think we’ve always been good about getting straight into the show.Louis: Yeah. I think it’s been great for that, and I agree with you. I struggle with some, you know, podcasts that are more amateur productions like ours, a lot of times for the same reason. Yeah, I think that even in those shows, I think the longest we did…I don’t know if, Patrick, did you post stats on this? You pulled a lot of stats for today’s show. So, do you know what the longest show we did was?Patrick: Oh, man. That’s a good one. No, I don’t know what that one is. Dang it. Darn you. If you had asked us for the podcast stats can’t you…Kevin Yank: Cut it out. Edit it out.Brad: There’s some that were like an hour and a half plus I .Kevin Yank: Yeah, for sure.Patrick: Really?Louis: That would’ve been before my time. I think the longest we did with me would’ve been an hour or ten or something.Patrick: Yeah, but we’re normally within that 35 to 45, you know, category I want to say. You know, 35 to 50.Brad: 30 minutes is tough. I’ve tried to do shows since and we, again same thing, try to get it in 30, and it’s just really hard to do. Like, you have to get in the show immediately and have a really strict schedule with topics. As soon as you hit that five or ten- minute mark, you have to move on, regardless of how awesome the conversation is. You just have to move on if you’re going to hit that mark. It’s really hard to do.Louis: Yeah, especially with a big show like this, because everyone wants to contribute something to every, you, every conversation. You know, with one on one interview shows there have been a few that have been more around that length. I think some of them are under half an hour.Kevin Yank: I think you’re absolutely right. When you’re planning a show, you kind of think of what you have to say about it, and you go “I could probably talk for 30 minutes about that. I’m pretty interested in that topic. I’ve got 30 minutes of stuff to say, and sure, there will be other people saying some stuff too, but they’ll probably say some of the stuff that I’m thinking of. So, I won’t say that stuff, and I’ll even out to about 30 minutes.” When in reality, every person is bringing 30 minutes plus to the table, and we always have to say less than we would like.Brad: Got to get that last word in four times.Kevin Yank: Yeah.Patrick: Like you guys are doing going back and forth? No, I’m just kidding.Brad: Crickets.Kevin Yank: So, what comes next?Patrick: Geez, Kevin. Calm down.Kevin Yank: I’m so excited.Patrick: Stop pushing me along. You’re a guest, okay. You’re a guest.Kevin Yank: I’m sorry.Patrick: I’m just kidding. Okay. So, another thing I wanted to talk about is our live show, because we did some live show, and we did four of them. Three of them were in person. One was not, and the first live show we did was May 22, 2010, and we did a live show at WordCamp Raleigh, in Raleigh, North Carolina. It was me, Brad, and Stephan, and then we came back again a year later, and the cops were there to get me. They heard about the last podcast. Run, Okay. Yeah, and then we came back a year later, May 21, 2011, and did a live show at WordCamp Raleigh again, same lineup. We had a really cool setup on stage with like arm chairs and stuff, and it was really a very talk show-esque. I just want to talk about that, because that was fun, especially the first one was kind of unique, and we had a really great lineup of people to talk to. Stephan, do you have any kind of memories of that?Stephan: Yeah. You know, it was a lot of fun. Like, at the time, it made me very nervous. I, I’m not a get up in front of people type person, so getting up there and doing a live show made me a little uncomfortable, but you guys, you guys were troopers. I think both of, both you and Brad had public speaking experience, so it made me a little more at ease, and I think I’ve gotten a little better now, but it was, it was fun. I think, I think, the, the audience actually, they kind of got into it and they were asking questions and we got to meet some people and it was fun. I really enjoyed it.Brad: Yeah, I, I had a lot of fun with that. The first one was definitely, I was definitely a little more nervous on the first one because it’s, I think the show was, what, two hours?Patrick: Yeah, we did about a two-hour show.Brad: Yeah, a two hour show, and so I’m like, initially, a little nervous just thinking “All right, we have two hours we’re going to be up here and we have to make sure we are doing something the whole time, right, for two hours”.Patrick: Juggling, talking, whatever, as long as we have something.Brad: Yeah, showing off our talents, you know, whatever it may be. But once we got going and we had such a, a strict kind of schedule of guests, when they were coming on, when they were coming off, we had a lot of helpers from the audio-video side. We also had, I believe we had someone set up that was going to kind of round up who was coming up next and make sure they were ready to go. So it was like, that took a lot of the stress off because you know “All right, every 10 minutes they’ll be someone new sitting here” and that makes it easy, and then the time really flew by. As soon as we started we were over, so I thought it was a lot of fun. I had a lot of fun with it. The first one I think is probably the most memorable for me just because it was the first time I’d done something like that, but the other two that we did were, were great, and I especially liked the BlogWorld one just because it was the first time the four of us had ever been together.Kevin Yank: Yeah. Oh I was, I was devastated to have missed those WordCamp ones originally, just listening to them after the fact I was thinking “Oh, it would have been amazing if all four of us were there”.Patrick: Yeah, we got that opportunity at BlogWorld Expo. That was October 15th, 2010, and all four of us, that’s the first time and only time that the entire current host line up at any time has got together face to face and recorded a show and that was a lot of fun. I mean, I have a lot of memories of that trip and, you know, one of the ones, just go, I mean, we went, the night we all got there, we went to the buffet at Mandalay Bay and, like, it’s like 10 SitePoint people and then me, Brad and Stephan, we all just had fun getting to know each other. It was really cool to meet everyone, to meet you and Shane and, and Luke Cuthbertson who was the CEO of SitePoint at the time and the other people. It was a really great conference.Kevin Yank: It was a great opportunity. SitePoint was there to, to launch the Learnable site at the time and we-Patrick: Yeah, yeah.Kevin Yank: Were there meeting bloggers and finding bloggers who would be interested in recording courses for the site and, yeah, it was just, I suppose, fate that we were all ending up going to that event and not only that but they had a dedicated podcast area that as far as I can tell no one used except us. Is that right?Patrick: Yeah, and it’s funny you mention that. I, I don’t know, and it’s funny you mention that because one of the funniest thing I can about that whole thing is that, you know, I don’t mind saying this, but BlogWorld, you know, dropped the ball, right? I mean, they, they fumbled it and they kicked the ball behind the fridge. I mean, literally, like, we, we did, we did not know we were going to be recording until, like, a, a few days before, and I had hooked them up with SitePoint, you know, you guys, I know you guys, not you guys, but SitePoint organization, Learnable, etc., spent a lot of money to be there, and also gave money to the conference and we were just going to do this podcast. That was the start of it and they promised us this area and then bad communication. And I you emailed me, like, I don’t know, 10 days, 8 day before and said “Guys, I don’t know. I don’t know if we have a show”.Kevin Yank: I’m pulling the plug.Patrick: And I sent them and email and something that, yeah, and I sent them an email. It was a funny thing you told me, you said the email I sent them which was kind of pointed, you printed out and put it on the wall and everyone in the office laughed at it. Because I, I was the bad guy I guess because I had to say “Hey, stop asking about this, just get our podcast stuff together,” and it worked out.Kevin Yank: I think they put it out there that they would have a podcast facility and probably the only people they heard from who were interested in using it was us. I know the Twit Network did some broadcasting from the show, but they had their own gear and their own set up. They were roaming around the, the place and talking to people on the show floor. We were the, the s of the podcast place and I, I guess, I don’t know, it felt like it stalled at the point of trying to schedule the times that we would use the thing, but the place was vacant the rest of the time. I have to say the, the guy, I wish I could his name, but the guy, the technician who was there on the day to help us with the recording, I wasn’t expecting anyone. I thought we were going to walk up and there would just be, you know, some chairs in an empty space, and we’d, if there were microphones we would be lucky, but there was a guy there. He had microphones, he had professional recording gear. He knew exactly what he was doing and he took really good care of us, and he even dealt with it when we wanted to plug in our laptop to UStream so that we could stream the recording live as we were doing it.Brad: Yeah, I mean, at the end it came out great. Like the, the quality was awesome.Patrick: Yeah.Brad: You could kind of hear a little bit of the background which I thought was cool, but it wasn’t like, overpowering at all. And then, yeah, we had the live stream going on, so at the end of the day I think it came out really great.Kevin Yank: Absolutely.Patrick: So yeah, that was a lot of fun. And then our third live show of the four was February 13th, 2011, when did our live 100th episode and we did that over video. I think we used TinyChat to have a little chat element and that was kind of the first time, and I don’t want to say we tried it the next week or two weeks from then, and then we kind of didn’t do it anymore, but we had kind of that chat experience and video and that kind of brought a different element to it.Kevin Yank: I have to say, in hindsight, I really enjoyed that process and, I, I’m not sure why we didn’t keep doing it. I think it might have just been one more element that we had to set up or plan when we were recording a show and it was maybe just a little too much work, but when we were doing it, it, it seemed great.Patrick: Yeah. I think it was because you and Brad, you and Brad didn’t want to have to comb your hair.Kevin Yank: Yes. My lengthy locks.Brad: You mean put pants on, right?Stephan: I actually liked the video shows. I thought it was kind of cool that we had, like, a video going. I was uncomfortable at first and I, I just think we had some technical difficulties with it. We could never get it to, to do it right. We would have the audio recording, and we could never get the video to show up in synch or, or we could get it to show up sometimes and I think we just kind of said “Eh, forget it. We’re just going to, we’re just going to go with the audio because that’s what we’re comfortable with.” That’s what I of it.Kevin Yank: Yes, but the surprise for today is that the reason the SitePoint podcast is ending is because we have figured it out and the, the podcast is ending and the video podcast starts next week right guys?Patrick: Yeah. Show me, tell me where to sign up.Kevin Yank: It’s a whole new cast I’m afraid. We have nothing to do with it.Patrick: Yeah, I mean, so I think part of this, what we’re talking about is the diversity of the show, right? I mean, we did group news shows. We did group shows. We did shows with guest hosts. We did group interviews where we, were more of us, more than one of us was on to interview someone. We did solo interviews. We did live shows, live shows with video, live shows in person, two, three, four host set ups, so really, we, you know, we tried most every kind of format.Kevin Yank: Yeah, and for a while, at the beginning, for the first year or so it was an every two weeks show, it was a bi-weekly show.Patrick: Right.Kevin Yank: And then I distinctly a conversation I had at a Web Standards group meeting Melbourne one night, I think I had spoken it early on the night, and someone came up to me and bought me a drink afterwards and he said “Listen, I’m a big fan of the SitePoint podcast” and it was probably the first time I had met someone in person who, who was a listen to the show and he said “Do it more often. Two weeks is too long to wait” and I kind of thought “Maybe this is our only rabid fan who wants twice as much SitePoint podcast, but maybe there are people out there who would listen to it every week.” And I know a lot of the really popular shows that have broken through and have built really huge audiences over the years, they do that through consistency and having a particular day of the week that it comes out and it always comes out on that day of the week and, and you can count on making that show part of your week as a listener and I thought, “You know, there’s something to that and maybe if there’s a way that we could take the show weekly, we should.” And I think that’s when we hatched the idea to do an interview every second show.Patrick: Yeah.Kevin Yank: And that’s something you continued right through till today, right?Brad: So that idea all came from someone buying you a drink, huh?Kevin Yank: Yes. I wish, once again, I can’t his name.Patrick: Yes. Just had to grease the wheel.Brad: Yeah, I actually, the interviews were fun. I didn’t do nearly as many as you Kevin. I did a few though, and they were definitely memorable. It’s the first time I ever Matt Mullenweg as actually the first interview I’ve ever done, one-on-one interview I’d ever done in my whole life like that, so that was a little bit nerve-wracking, especially since I was, you know, really just getting into the WordPress community and he’s kind of the, the godfather of it all, you know, so that didn’t help either, but, you know, overall I learned a lot from doing it and I, I really enjoyed it, so I did a few others over the years. That’s definitely a lot harder than it sounds, a one-on-one interview because, well, you guys know, I think we’ve all done one here, but to listeners, maybe not, that, you know, you kind of have to, you don’t know what the, the interviewee is going to kind of toss back at you. Some people could chat all day long about, with one question. Other people might give you a five-word answer and that’s it, and so it’s like you have to kind of be prepared to roll with that and also have questions lined up and if there’s something else, you know, kind of dive into the topics a little bit more, so it’s more of a challenge than a group where, especially interviewing somebody with multiple people because it’s all on you to kind of keep that, that flow going. So I distinctly that, when I was doing these interviews, how it was a lot more prep work doing those than it was the group shows for me.Kevin Yank: Absolutely. I would say generally though, there are a lot more people who give a good interview than not, and I think a one-on- one interview is one of those unique situations where both people feel a lot of pressure to deliver. The interviewer wants to make this a great experience for the person who’s given of their time and they also want to ask good questions because if the interview’s no good, they’re going to blame themselves. They’re going to go, “Obviously I didn’t ask them anything they were interested in talking about.” Whereas the interviewee also, even though, supposedly they are the star of this show and they are the celebrity that’s been invited on to talk about something that’s of mass interest. Nevertheless, usually those people feel a lot of pressure as well to deliver, to be interesting because this show is all about them. It’s not like a show where if you’re having an off day you can sort of sit in the background a bit and whatever is going on. As an interviewee, it’s all about you. There’s no getting out of that spotlight and if the show is bad, there’s no one to blame except you as the interviewee. So most of our interviewees, I think, did a great job of taking on that responsibility and providing something entertaining and insightful and something new and original that they hadn’t said before elsewhere.Louis: Yeah. I’d second that. I think we had, or at least for the interviews that I did that had a really amazing run, I think the ones that were more challenging were definitely a minority and for the most part, I had a great time with almost everyone I spoke to on the show.Kevin Yank: Were you surprised by how easily people say yes when you ask them to an interview? I know I was always going I can’t ask that person, but hey, I’ve got their e-mail address, I might as well.Louis: It actually, what happened to me, is that there were definitely people who I didn’t even consider asking for a long time or at least when I started on the show. And then what happened at some point was I was talking to two of the authors of SitePoint’s mobile web book, Max Wheeler and Myles Eftos, and we were just talking about a blog post that Jeremy Keith had written which sort of said, again paraphrasing, but sort of response web design is the only way to go, dedicated mobile and apps is kind of not as good approach. And we just sort of talked about it. They said, we sort feel it’s sort of dogmatic of way of thinking about this. And then, after the show went out. Jeremy Keith posted in the comments of the show, something like, “Well, that’s not exactly what I was saying. Obviously, I’d love to come on the show any time to clear this up or talk about it with you.” And so that’s when I kind of had the revelation of whoa. Well, Jeremy Keith, he wrote the first JavaScript book that I read when I was starting to program, learned web development. So, for me that was like, this is crazy, and did that interview and it went super well because obviously Jeremy’s a really funny, engaging guy.Kevin Yank: Yeah.Louis: So, once I’d had him on the show, then I sort of felt like, look. If I’ve interviewed Jeremy Keith, then I think that kind of broke any inhibitions that I might have had about asking people to come on the show. And so from then on whenever I wanted to email someone, didn’t matter how much of a superstar I felt they were, I was just like, hey, yeah. Want to come on the show? And like you said, most, really the majority of the time, the answer was yes.Kevin Yank: Plus, you could say do you want to come on my show that Jeremy Keith has been on? You know?Louis: Well, then, you could say that. Yeah. It was definitely surprising to me how willing most people were to come on the show. You know people, some people, I found, were a little bit uncertain because they hadn’t done interviews before. Even people who did a lot of you know, public speaking and blogging and people who were really, really out there as far as making their opinions known when it came time to do like a one-on-one interview, there were a little uncertain about how to proceed and that was kind of surprising as well because you’d think that between doing an interview for a podcast that’s edited and that’s just a few questions and getting up in front of a conference and addressing five hundred people, the interview would be a far less daunting task but it seems like it is a different thing in some people’s minds.Kevin Yank: Yeah. I’d have to agree with that.Kevin Yank: And that’s a good time for any young budding podcasters out there is there is probably someone out there worth interviewing who owes you a favor or who would never say no to you for whatever reason. And get them on your first show and then from then on, that breaks the ice if you’re inviting someone on your show, they’ll go to your site and go, “What is this show that I’m being invited on? Hey. Jeremy Keith’s been on it. It can’t be that bad.”Patrick: Right.Louis: And another good tip. This is just the tip for anyone who wants to start a podcast about web design development. If you want a smooth interview to get you started, and you’re not sure if you’re going to be able to ask good follow up questions and if you’re going to be able to run an interview, get John Allsopp on your show because you basically have to say, “Hi John. Welcome to the show.” And then you get 45 minutes of content.Kevin Yank: Plus he will always do an interview.Louis: And he loves. He’s really helpful. I mean the last time I had him on, it was like a week before Web Direction South So, I can’t imagine. I e-mailed him and I was like look I realize that you’re obviously really busy, but there’s been some stuff that you’ve blogged about lately that I’d like to talk about.” And was like, “Yeah. Sure. 100%. No problem.” He’s a great guy.Kevin Dees: I have to agree with you, Louis, on doing interviews. Even before I came on the SitePoint podcast, I having that same animosity, I guess anxiety, like about doing an interview with somebody and I just ended up asking one of the guys that was in town to do like basically one of the first interview shows for a podcast that I was doing at the time. His name was Benjamin Young. And then eventually, I think Patrick, yeah, we interviewed you for that podcast and then kind of from there. I think Patrick was the first person that I had asked to do the interview because I had been listening to the SitePoint podcast from episode 2. I wish I had figured out about it since episode 1 but it could be. Okay. I was like an original fan but unfortunately, I missed that mark. But, yeah. I sent Patrick an e-mail and Patrick was more than happy to come on. I think after getting to talk to you Patrick, it was kind of downhill from there as far as somebody I had not met before that I asked to do an interview on the show or actually, our concept was a little bit different because it wasn’t actually an interview. Jonas and I actually got to talk to you together. So, that was kind of an interesting thing.Patrick: Yeah. It’s funny how it starts from there because like you know, you had interviewed me, and I had listened to your show a little bit and when Brad left, it was. And Louis, we’d been talking to Louis about maybe doing a little less interviews because interviews I talked about require a lot of preparation. A lot of time was in that. After you’ve gotten to a certain point, you’ve interviewed so many people and it becomes harder to think of new people, so that was one of the things where I knew you did interviews and so I was like, I wonder if Kevin will do some of these interviews. And then we can invite him to be on the show as a host and so it worked out from there from us just talking and me being on your show and seeing that you’d interviewed a lot of well known web designers and had a good rapport with them.Kevin Dees: Yeah. It was definitely really fun, kind of getting into the community. I haven’t been around quite as long as you guys have, but you know, just the enthusiasm that the community has and just the listeners as well, I mean even on the podcasts that we were doing at that time. We got to do and talk to one of the listeners on the show and then, moving into that, my own personal blog and able to talk to people doing video interviews.And so all that stuff, you just become, I guess, more comfortable with it because you realize that every person that you talk to is just a person and they just happen to be doing something different than you are and that’s what makes it worthwhile to talk to that person. And I don’t. I found you think of somebody like a superstar and really they’re just like you. They’re just wanting to do something and so they’re more than happy to talk about it.Kevin Yank: Absolutely.Patrick: That’s funny. You know, I like your honesty because you said you’ve been listening since episode number 2 and a lot of people would just say, you know what that’s long enough. I can say from the beginning, but no. You specifically say episode number two. You have to love that honesty. But that brings up a point I want.Kevin Yank: That would be the easy cheat. To go back and listen to episode one but.Patrick: It would be and that bring up something that I wanted to ask and I think Louis’ done probably more interviews than anybody else if not right up there. So, I want, I was curious to ask you, what’s your favorite interview? And it doesn’t have to be one you did but obviously I expect one of the ones, some of the ones that you did to be one of your favorites. What are your like three or however many you come up with, favorite interviews, Louis?Louis: I think I can answer that pretty quickly. I’m just going to quickly double check. So that first interview I did with Jeremy Keith was amazing. I had a really, really good time. Even listening to it now, I think it was funny. I think we raised a lot of interesting points that are relevant to designers and I think it was a great interview and it’s also been, at least from the stats I pulled from Libsyn before today’s show, it is, by a significant margin, our most ed episode. It seems that that is also the listeners’ opinion.Patrick: Oh my God. It might be Jeremy Keith’s followers’ opinion on Twitter, but I don’t know about the listeners. I’m just giving you a hard time. Go ahead.Louis: All right. All right. All right. Now, that’s legit. In fairness, you’re right. A lot of that was probably because he has a, sort of a podcast, web app called HuffDuffer and he probably shared it pretty extensively on that which probably contributes to that count.Patrick: I’m just giving you a hard time. You should be proud of that. It is our most listened to show far and away and it’s because of you and your interview.Louis: That’s all right. It’s all right. No, it’s fine. You can give me a hard time. I can take it. And, yeah, so other ones I liked, we. I interviewed Ethan Marcott very shortly after he had just finished his involvement in the responsive redesign of the Boston Globe. So, I think that that was a great interview and that one, surprisingly when I was looking at the list was sort of down in the middle of the numbers. So, I imagine they’re probably people listening to this who haven’t heard it. And that’s pretty cool. It was fun to hear him talk about, you know, working on a project of that size and with the various teams that he worked with to try and get, you know…it was probably the first responsive design at that scale. It really needed to be really fast and effective at that size. So, it was an interesting conversation.Kevin Yank: I’ve got a few memorable interviews that I’d like to jump in with.Patrick: Yeah. How about I’ll throw it over to you next because I think it’s between you and Louis for number one and number two as far as who did the most interviews. Who are some of your favorites?Kevin Yank: Some of my favorites? We had a lot of them on the episode 100 when we did the live one to thank them. We invited them back and top of that list for me would be Chris Wilson, who was always generous with his time. I did a live interview with him at a Web Directions conference once upon a time. We were in the little speaker’s lounge that no one used for anything except us doing these interviews, I think. He was there as a speaker. He was there manning the Microsoft booth. Nevertheless, he gave me a good 15 to 20 minutes of his time to sit down and chat about his thoughts. Which at the time, no one would like to be the guy answering for Internet Explorer at that time and yet he was happy to give up his time and answer honestly and candidly. It was great to have him back on episode 100 once he had made the move to Google. At that time he was on the Google TV team, but he has since moved back to browsers. His first love and he is working on Google Chrome these days. Probably my very favorite interview of all time is Derek Powazek, who I have had a long-time Internet crush on.Louis: I love that show. I hearing that interview. That was a two-part show, right?Kevin Yank: Yeah, we broke it into two parts because he had so much to talk about. It wasn’t even one of those artificial two parts, where we just edited it, after the fact. He literally spoke for a whole episodes worth during the first time slot that we had lined up. At the end of it we both agreed we’d love to chat more, so we scheduled a second recording after the first one to do a follow up episode.Louis: I absolutely loved that episode, so that’s another one if anyone’s listening to this and hasn’t heard the talk. I think that’s not, you know, the content is definitely still timely and it’s absolutely worth the listen.Kevin Yank: We spoke about online communities, which is something that I know you’re ionate about as well, Patrick. In hindsight, I would’ve loved for you two to have gotten in on that show as well. You’ve certainly had plenty of opportunities to talk about community in your time. The other episode. The second episode. I forget which order they came in. We also spoke about publishing because he was involved in MagCloud at the time and he was also publishing his collections of short stories, the magazine called, “Fray”. These days he is running his own start up which is called, “Cute Fight,” and if you haven’t checked it out and you have a pet in your life or if you know of anyone who has a pet in their life, I recommend you check out Cute Fight. It’s just gone public. It’s a silly online game for owners of pets to decide once and for all whose pet is the cutest.Louis: Fight to the Death.Kevin Yank: Yeah, it is a fight to the death. You get to pick which gladiator stadium you’re fight takes place in. You pick three of the photos you’ve ed of your pet and they go at it and the community votes on which one is the cutest. It’s great fun and Derek continues to make great contributions to the web. Other people that come to mind are Jeffrey Veen, who is at TypeKit these days, but his involvement in the web can be traced way back to the origins of Google Analytics and even before that. Alex Payne, who was on the Twitter API team and later at Bank Simple. I’m very much looking forward to seeing what Alex does next. He recently wrote a great article in The Magazine which is an IOS only magazine publication which is published every two weeks. He posted a great article about how, “Being alone with technology.” He’s a guy that’s starting over a little bit. He’s left his position at Bank Simple and also ended a long term relationship in his life and it was really interesting reading his perspectives on that. I can’t wait to see what comes next for him. Those would be my top four just off the top of my head.Patrick: Cool and just to draw on those a little bit, Chris Wilson interview was episode 11. The interview with Powazek and I actually did get in on that. I was…I interviewed him for the community stuff too, right alongside of there. He brought me on to do that, yeah, so episode number 48 was a publishing episode and 52 and 54, we released the community episode in two parts. It’s funny that you mentioned that because that is one of my favorite interviews on the SitePoint podcast. I think that was a really good show. I enjoyed talking about online community with him as he is a veteran of the space and I’ve been around the block a few times myself. We were about to have a really good conversation. I really enjoyed it. So, my other favorite interview would be…Kevin: I’ll just jump in and say if you want more Derek Powazek, he also presented a talk on running your own start up on Web Direction South this year and the video for that session is going to be posted online any day now. It was a great talk. He just sort of went, “Here are six situations in which I completely messed up in my career and here’s what I learned from them.” They were great no holds barred, looks back at personal failures in start-up business. Great war stories to hear as well.Patrick: Cool. In addition to Powazek, Paul Boag was one of my favorite ones and also Amber Naslund and Jay Baer. The interview I did with them was really cool because Jay has been around the block on the Internet for a very long time and worked for the first company to offer shared hosting solutions, I believe it was. It was just a really interesting conversation. So, Kevin Dees, you’ve probably done third among us as far as interviews. Who are a couple of your favorite interviews?Kevin Dees: Yeah. So, I’ve been on the show for about a year. I’ve been able to have a few interviews and I had to say among those, like you said, Paul Boag, I got to talk to him about his concept of client-centric web design instead of -centric web design. I think that was a really cool interview to get to do with him because he had just released the book and he had just done his series on his podcast kind of talking about the topic. Just the idea that the company goals of the client that you’re working with kind of come above the goals and all the things around that. How the business objective is. The business objective and as designers and developers, sometimes we can get caught up in the idea that it’s the above and beyond. It isn’t to say that the customer experience and all that kind of thing isn’t important. That was one of my favorite ones and then actually, the second favorite that I did was the one I got to do with Dave Rupert a few weeks ago. If you haven’t listened to that we got to talk about the Open Source projects that he’s been involved in like Fit Vids and Fit Text. Just after that actually, I got to talk with my friend, Ronnie Taylor about Drupal. That one actually did fairly well on the stats for the SitePoint podcast. I don’t really know if we talked about Drupal much. That was a really fun conversation to kind of touch on something that was outside of Word Press. Sorry, Brad.Patrick: Brad, is it safe to say that Mullenweg is your favorite?Brad: Yeah, I think so, not just because of who he is, but also being my first one. I had learned a lot from it. So, absolutely. It’s been a while. That was three years ago. A Lot has changed in the Word Press world since that interview.Patrick: Stephan, you have a favorite?Stephan: Do I have a favorite? I really never interviewed many people. I’m not a good interviewer mostly because it was hard for me to do it every Monday.Patrick: We totally understand that.Kevin Dees: I’ll have to say Stephan did an interview at Word Camp Raleigh 2011. You got to interview me.Stephan: That’s right.Patrick: Very good.Stephan: I don’t know if that was more of an interview or more or less me letting you express yourself. I wouldn’t call it really me interviewing you.Patrick: That’s what the greatest interviews are. Letting them express themselves.Brad: It sounds like that really left an impression on Stephan. He ed that.Kevin Dees: He said no more, no more.Louis: I actually just thought of another one that I really enjoyed. I thought I’d just throw one into the list. An interview I did for podcast 139 with Lea Verou. It was just a great interview. I feel like I got the impressions talking to her by email when I asked her to come onto the show and even when we hooked up the Skype call that she was a little bit anxious about being on an interview and she didn’t really know…we didn’t really have a clear topic to talk about. I was just going to ask her about all the different various projects that she had done and her talks at conferences that I’d seen videos of. That kind of interview where you don’t have a core topic and you’re not asking someone about something they feel really opinionated about can be really challenging for everybody, but this one went really well. It was just a lot of fun to do. Lea, is obviously an amazing developer, if you’ve seen any of her work on CSS3 and Javascript. She’s pretty crazy. So yeah, that was a lot of fun as well.Patrick: You know, one of the things I thought would be fun to look at, I actually did do this research is to, you know, line up kind of the first and last episode of each host and when they debuted. So I’ll just quickly run through that and then we can kind of talk about if there’s anything to talk about, and if there’s something in the middle that I think we’ll talk about, but, the pilot episode, October 15th, 2008, that was the first episode for Brad, Me and Stephan. Episode number one, November 10th, 2008, was the first episode for Kevin Yank. Louis ed us on episode number 101, that’s March 3rd, 2011, but Louis has been on the show before. That was his first one as a host, interviewing someone, or as a host otherwise, but he was actually on the show as a guest before that on an episode that was called “The Occasional Dick Move with Louis Simoneau “.Kevin Yank: That’s when I interviewed you, Louis.Louis: Yeah.Patrick: Yes. Yeah, and that’s a good title.Kevin Yank: Yep.Louis: I had a lot of fun on that episode and, and I think it kind of gave me a taste for it, so, when, when Kevin decided when he wanted to move on from the show and asked me if I wanted to, to hop on, I think having done that I felt really, really excited about the possibility.Kevin Yank: Muahahaha! My plan all along.Patrick: You were trapped. Kevin and his charm, trapping hosts since 2011.Louis: It was pretty cool, because, because for some, for some time after that show a Google search for my name turned up that as the first result, which I thought was pretty awesome, and I kind of wished it had stayed that way, but unfortunately all good things must come to an end.Patrick: Yeah. And so, let’s see, episode 108, April 16th, 2011, that was Kevin Yank’s last episode, so from 1 to 108. Episode 138, November 11, 2011, that was the last episode for Brad, so he went from October 15th, 2008, to November 11, 2011, and what was, or I should say pilot to 138, but what was memorable about that for me is I actually recorded it with him in person in his office in his house in Pennsylvania.Kevin Yank: It was a last ditch attempt to make it as convenient as possible for you to be on the show, but it didn’t work.Brad: Yeah, there were, there were tears, there was hugging. It was emotional, but I actually forgot you were here, Patrick. I’m glad you, I’m glad you brought that up. I forgot that’s the one. I knew you were here for one of them. I forgot that was my last one. I probably should have ed that, but that was fun.Patrick: Yeah, I hopped on the iFroggy private jet when I heard you were thinking of leaving and, you know, flew, I had them drop me out of the plane, no time for a landing, parachuted directly onto your roof and jumped down and saw if I could convince you and I couldn’t.Brad: Valiant effort.Patrick: There’s nothing, there’s nothing to say to that because it’s all made up, but, you know, and that was a fun episode. I mean, it was fun even though it was the last one. And you have no memories of that so you’re not saying anything.Brad: I the last show. I just forgot that you were in your house during the last show.Patrick: Apparently it meant nothing to you. I was sneaking behind you. And, of course, right after that, Devin Dees came on, episode 140, November 30th, 2011, that was his first show, and finally, episode 192 is going to be our last show for Kevin Dees, Louis, me, and Stephan. So that’s the host timeline.Brad: You know I see that you actually had Kevin back on again on episode 161, but if you look at the time line, you know, you never had me back on again so, I don’t, I don’t know what that says, but you bring me back at the, when it’s over.Patrick: You’re back on now.Brad: I’m kidding.Patrick: But to be fair, we did interview you on the show while you were still a host. We had you on as a guest with the co-authors of your first book to interview you about your book, so there’s always that.Kevin Yank: That’s a great point.Patrick: Yes. That is a great point. Thank you, thank you Kevin. I appreciate that. And I, and in doing this research I actually tallied up how many shows each of us hosted.Brad: This’ll be a fun stat.Kevin: Drum roll please.Patrick: And those numbers are as follows. Yes, drum roll. Okay. I hosted 124 episodes of the SitePoint podcast. Stephan hosted 99. And this includes the final one here also, if that was not clear, 124 for me, 99 for Stephan. Brad and Kevin actually came out tied at 84.Brad: Oh!Patrick: You guys, if one of you had just hosted one more.Brad: I’ll share it. We can share.Patrick: Or one less.Kevin Yank: Yeah.Patrick: You’ll have to share it. Louis Simoneau hosted 68, Kevin Dees, 31, and also, I realized this as I went through, Matthew McGain and Shane Tilley each were allowed to host one episode to do an interview with someone.Kevin Yank: Never again.Patrick: You know, it was, it was permitted once each in a pinch.Kevin Yank: Just, by the way, for any Matthew McGain fans out there, I have it on good authority that he has a podcast planned.Brad: Nice.Kevin Yank: Watch iTunes for that one.Brad: So Patrick, you won, by quite a bit.Patrick: I am the winner. The biggest, I am the biggest loser of them all. Yeah, I don’t, you know, Stephan, when I was looking through the numbers on Stephan I realized that he didn’t miss an episode for, like, six months on the first run. Like, every time his name was in the, he was on every episode for, like, I don’t know, three to six months, and all of us has skipped at least one, but you know, he was the early iron horse. Okay. So I don’t think you guys, I don’t know if I mentioned this to you or not, so I’m not sure if you had time to prepare for it, but maybe there’s something off the top of your head, I thought it might be fun to talk about favorite show titles, and obviously number 97, “The Occasional Dick Move with Louis Simoneau” is probably the leader and probably the winner in everyone’s mind, And, you know, it’s funny you mentioned that about t 4f32b