114 The Surfing Copywriter: How ion and Strategy Can Power Your Surf Business 6n125i

What happens when a lifelong surfer ditches big-name fashion brands to carve out a niche as the go-to copywriter for the surf industry? If you're a surf business owner juggling content, marketing, and your next session in the water, this episode is a must-listen. Discover how surfer and copywriter Lachlan Campbell turned his ion for surfing into a thriving business that helps other surf brands rise above the noise—and how you can do the same. Learn how to align your ion with your profession and create a business that truly fits your lifestyle. Discover the current marketing gaps in the surf industry—and how surf camps, product brands, and retreats can capitalize on them. Get practical insights into how AI is changing the copywriting game and what it means for small surf brands on tight budgets. Hit play now to learn how to elevate your surf brand with strategic, authentic storytelling from someone who truly speaks your language—waves and all. https://thesurfingcopywriter.com Key Points The podcast discusses the alignment of profession with ion, focusing on business within the surf industry. Lachlan Campbell, the surfing copywriter, shares insights on marketing gaps in the surf industry and how AI is changing the game. Lachlan discusses the importance of managing expectations and being grateful for being in the water as a key to enjoying surfing. The shift to Europe influenced Lachlan's preference for different types of surfboards, moving away from performance shortboards to more fun boards like twin fins. Copywriting is defined as writing with intent and purpose to move someone from having an issue to having the solution, essentially the written form of marketing. The surf industry is increasingly recognizing the need for more proactive marketing strategies, especially post-COVID, to stand out among growing competition. There is potential for new surf brands to shine, especially in underserved markets or by offering unique experiences and collaborations, such as with wellness coaches. AI is changing the game by providing assistance in content creation and idea generation, though it's advised to add personal nuance to AI-generated content. Lachlan's ideal client is someone ionate about their business, considering more than just profit, and invested in improving people's lives through surfing.  Outline Surfing Background Lachlan Campbell started surfing at a very young age, possibly around seven or eight years old, and grew up on the east coast of Australia. Lachlan moved to Portugal after meeting their spouse in Nicaragua, as a compromise location for their shared living. Lachlan's surfing style has evolved over time, moving from performance shortboards to more fun boards like twin fins and mid-lengths. Surfing Advice Lachlan's best piece of surfing advice is to surf with no expectations and to be grateful for being in the water. Managing expectations and focusing on the quality of the experience rather than the quantity of waves can lead to a more enjoyable session. Lachlan suggests trying fun boards for a more relaxed and enjoyable surfing experience. Copywriting and Marketing in the Surf Industry Lachlan Campbell is a professional copywriter who specializes in the surf industry, having started in 2013 and focusing on surf businesses since 2018. Copywriting is defined as writing with intent and purpose to move someone from having an issue to having the solution, essentially selling an idea or product using words. The surf industry's grasp of marketing is described as limited, with many business owners relying on visual appeal and location rather than strategic marketing. There is an increasing need for surf businesses to invest in marketing due to heightened competition post-COVID, with more emphasis on SEO, email newsletters, and paid advertising. Smaller surf brands with limited budgets are finding opportunities to stand out by focusing on niche markets and unique offerings. Innovation and Trends in the Surf Industry There is ongoing innovation in the hard goods sector of the surf industry, with niche products like fin rental services and specialized surf accessories emerging. Surf camps and retreats are evolving by adding wellness, mental health, and resilience coaching to their offerings, catering to a demand for more comprehensive experiences. The integration of AI in copywriting and marketing is discussed, highlighting its role as a tool for idea generation, structure, and efficiency rather than a replacement for human creativity. Business Advice and Ideal Client Profile Lachlan offers business advice through a weekly newsletter, sharing insights from working with clients and personal musings. The ideal client for Lachlan is someone ionate about their business, invested in its growth, and aligned with the values of improving people's lives through surfing. Lachlan prefers working with clients on a retainer basis to build a deeper understanding of their business and contribute more effectively to its growth. Transcription Michael Frampton Welcome back or welcome to the Surf Mastery Podcast. The podcast that helps ionate lifelong surfers to catch more waves, surf with more speed, style, and grace, and to gain wisdom and confidence in the water. I am your host, Michael Frampton. Today's episode is a little bit different. We're talking about business, in particular business within the surf industry. Today's guest is Lachlan Campbell, the surfing copywriter—that's thesurfingcopywriter.com—and we're going to discover how you can align your profession with your ion. We'll talk about the current marketing gaps in the surf industry and practical insights about how AI is changing the game and what it means for small surf brands on tight budgets, plus much more. And Lachlan is an experienced surfer and he weighs in with some nice practical surf tips as well before we segue into the business side of things. The next cohort of the Wave Catching Academy is live, so if you're on the waiting list, you can go ahead and book that if you are frustrated with the lack of waves that you're getting. And personally, I'm sick of all these surf coaches doing nothing but teach you how to do a better bottom turn or a top turn. Yet the hardest part in surfing is what happens between when the board is under your arm and under your feet. So if you want to learn the details about that and how to get into more waves, about how to catch more waves and how to set the start of the wave up, it's the hardest part of surfing and that's what this course is all about. I have a couple of spaces in the diary for some one-on-one online coaching as well. You can email me [email protected] if you want to find out more about that. And now here is my conversation with Lachlan Campbell, the surfing copywriter. When did you start surfing? Lachlan Campbell I can't say I, 'cause I can't what my first surf session was. It was, I was younger than 10, but I know there's some photos floating around at my parents' house, of my dad pushing me onto waves in Queensland. But I'd been surfing before that, let's say like eight, seven or eight years old, like getting pushed on the waves, just the beach. Not seriously going, hey, like I wanna surf, but just like my dad surfed and stuff. So he was obviously taken to the beach when he went to the beach and I was around surfing pretty much my whole childhood. But I think I, because I even went from surfing, learning how to surf and then jumped on a bodyboard for a little bit 'cause that's what all my mates was doing. And then when we all jumped on surfboards again and graduated to the kind of like the more advanced beach in the area, we were back on surfboards. So, I don't know, since I was young, but shivers, you wouldn't, you wouldn't know it if you saw me for about how long I've been surfing. I'm still pretty, pretty steady, I would say. Whereabouts was that? It's on the east coast of Australia. I live in Portugal now, but yeah, it was, I grew up on the east coast of Australia and, like a couple of hours south of Sydney in a little dairy farming, surfing, fishing community, called Gerringong. We had two beaches there. We have one just to the south in Ulla called Seven Mile Beach, which is probably like the most beginner, longboard friendly beach that I've ever been to. I would say like it's super mellow, really gradual sandbanks that just run like kind of a hundred or so meters and yeah, great for longboarding. Can be like six foot. I've literally never seen it barrel. It's just like always this like rolling whitewash wave. So good for learning, good for longboarding. The local beach is Werri Beach. So that's, yeah, that's got a point break at one end and a nice peaky little river mouth at the other end. And yeah, that was the stomping ground. The east coast of Australia is paradise for surfers. So why move to Europe, Portugal? I met my wife actually in Nicaragua and she's from Austria. And so when we were kind of trying to find a compromise on where to live, the compromise was Portugal. And yeah, I mean, for me, Portugal is kind of the closest you get to Australia, I guess that surf lifestyle and that surf culture. And yeah, when I moved over here, I lived in Amsterdam and worked in Amsterdam for a bit over a year, and then we traveled around Europe a bit. But yeah, I don't know. I kind of just found a place in Europe. Getting the business off the ground as I moved over here helped as well. It's kind of, I don't know, like there's obviously a big learn-to-surf culture in Australia, but it's more so in, I would say, the States and Central America and Europe. Morocco, Africa as well. So yeah, it's been like a good business move to live here as well. But, uh, yeah. Short answer there is love. Lachlan Campbell Yeah. I moved to London in 2008 and discovered Ericeira on trips. Man, what a magic place that was back then, at least. I dunno what it's like now, but the waves were— Michael Frampton It's still magic. Lachlan Campbell Yeah. It's a little bit—like, I'm in the south, I'm in the Algarve, so we have like a lot of beach breaks and stuff here. We have two coastlines, which kind of makes up for the lack of kind of reef and point breaks and stuff. But, and Peniche—I mean, the whole coastline is so good. Like, I've done a few trips now, like up to Galicia, which is in northwest Spain, and back down again and just sampled Portuguese coastline, and there's waves up and down the coast. A lot of people are concentrated around Ericeira and Peniche obviously, and the Algarve too, but plenty of waves all around. Yeah, it's good. Yeah. It's a good spot to live for surfers. Yeah. Michael Frampton Yeah. What's been your—what's your best piece of surfing advice that's helped you not only enjoy surfing but be a better surfer? Lachlan Campbell I think because I've been surfing for quite a long time now, and a lot of that progression when you're like a teenager—whether you're learning like a language or surfing—a lot of it is instinctual. So the whole technical element to surfing kind of only came to me later in life. And I'm not like technical with it at all. You know, I don't really do any coaching or anything like that. I find it interesting how people break it down, but to be honest, I'm that far gone now, I'm not even gonna try and correct some of my bad habits. But no, I think probably the biggest takeaway for me, definitely in adulthood, is how good a surf session is gonna be isn't actually determined by the waves. For me, it's expectation. It's about being grateful for just being in the water because I know—and I'm sure other surfers would know as well—the waves can be pumping, but if you are in maybe an over-frothed kind of pumped-up mood and you go out there and you're just paddling around trying to catch everything, you can come in and not get a wave or not get a good one. And I don't know, maybe just feel like a bit out of sync. Whereas if you go in some days where you're kind of expecting it to not be great, you just find like a little waist-high rip bowl or something, you can just have such a fun time just because your expectations had shifted and maybe you weren't really predetermining how the session should go. So yeah, I guess the biggest piece of surfing advice for me is just try and just get out there and maybe not think about it too much. Or I know as well, when I go out and maybe it's like pumping and I try to chase a specific type of wave, you kind of always end up being in the wrong spot at the wrong time. Surfing's weird like that. It's not something you can just—I dunno, this is why pro surfing would be such a nightmare because you can't just manufacture a wave, right? I mean, wave pools, but when you're in the ocean, you can't manufacture and make something come towards you. It just happens. And I think sometimes your—yeah, without getting too woo-woo—I think sometimes your mental state can influence that a little bit. So yeah, maybe surfing with no expectations and just being grateful for being out there. I mean, if you're in the water, you're not working, so— Michael Frampton Yeah, it's gotta be something to be grateful for, right? Lachlan Campbell Oh, I a hundred percent agree with that. The only expectation I have when I go surfing now is just to catch one wave. Michael Frampton You must be just stoked on every surf then you have. Lachlan Campbell Yep. Yeah, exactly. Just catch one wave. I think if you can manage your expectations to that. It's like the other day I went surfing and the waves were—it looked like it was pumping and I was, oh, I was excited. And then I paddled out there and the current and the backwash, it just was—the waves were so hard to catch and to surf. And it's just still like, just catch one wave, just catch one wave. Just kept reminding myself. And I only got one wave and I was stoked with it. So yeah, it's a big one. Michael Frampton Yeah. Lachlan Campbell That's a quality over quantity thing as well, right? I mean, you would've seen before, like some surfers will paddle out on a good day and just sit there and kind of wait and maybe only take like one or two good waves throughout the whole session. And yeah, some people will froth around, chase everything, can end up with nothing. So yeah, I think just to summarize that, yeah, good surfing maybe starts—or for me, a good session kind of starts before you even get in the water, which can be difficult because if you're all on a boat trip with your mates or on a surf camp or something with your partner or whatever, and you've been hyping it up for ages and then you finally get to a wave that's pumping, yeah, sometimes your expectations are met, but I think if you try and just, I don't know, just keep it a little bit level-headed, yeah, you'll end up having a good session. Michael Frampton Yeah. Oh, definitely. Yeah. So for most of us, surfing is not a sport. It's a pastime or an art form, so— Lachlan Campbell Mm-hmm. Michael Frampton There's no need to perform or surfer, no. A shortboard or did shifting to Europe, did that change the type of surfboard you ride? Lachlan Campbell Well, sure. So, I mean, I think it's still the same in Australia, let's say there's like a lineup with 20 people out. In Australia, 18 of them will be on a—I mean, it depends where you are. In Australia, let's say Byron Bay is a bit of an outlier, but other places in Australia, 20 people out in the lineup, I'd say 18 are gonna be on like a performance shortboard. And I mean it's different where you're going in Europe too, but I'd say like on a whole, most people are on maybe more fun boards. And for me, coming to Europe, I—maybe the wave quality played a little bit of a role in that, but I realized pretty quickly, like no one gives a shit what boards you're riding here, right? Lachlan Campbell Like you can jump on whatever you want. So coming to Europe for me was coming with shortboards and then kind of transitioning out and broadening my horizons and trying some different boards. And now—if you had said this to me like 10, 15 years ago—I’d just be like, I’d laugh you out of the room. But now, for most of the year, I’m on like a twin fin or a mid-length, or, I don’t know. I guess I also lost that desire to rip a wave every time I surfed it. For me, like, definitely my definition of good surfing has changed a lot. But yeah, for me, I’m just looking to surf the wave well and just, I don’t know, make it easier for myself too, right? I see a lot of people struggling on performance shortboards, which—even the most -friendly performance shortboard—it takes a little bit of finesse to surf it well. And yeah, for me, maybe my own style is not great, but style is pretty important for me. It kind of comes into the equation for me for good surfing. And yeah, you kind of want a board that makes surfing with style a bit easier instead of a shortboard where you're just constantly trying to pump for speed and generate speed. So yeah, I don’t know. Definitely bigger, wider, less fins surfboards since I came to Europe. Michael Frampton Yep. Yeah. I’m in the same boat. If there's one piece of advice I could give my younger self, it would be, yeah, try some of those fun boards. Mate, my shortboard surfing career probably peaked when I was 15, 16, and I was on a steady downhill after that. So to be honest, the mid-length kind of revolution, these more performance twin fins, when they came along, I was like, yep, that’s me all over. Still catch plenty of waves. Easy to generate speed on, easy to paddle. Yeah. That for me is the sweet spot. Just easy. Lachlan Campbell Yeah. So now let’s segue into your work because your website, The Surfing Copywriter—how did that come about? Michael Frampton I started copywriting in 2013 but really got serious about it in 2014. That was just before I moved to Europe, and, you know, Amsterdam—started copywriting kind of professionally there and managed to pick up a few bigger name clients, but they were mainly in that, I don’t know, lifestyle, fashion sector. And it wasn’t until 2018—so I’d been doing it for four, 2019, four or five years—when I was like, why don’t I just do copywriting for surfing? Because I’ve surfed all my life. It seems so obvious now, but at the time I didn’t even think about marrying those two. And so I actually went and had a look and just made like a list of all the surf businesses around the world—a pretty comprehensive list—and just thought, okay, is there scope for someone to come in and help with copywriting? And yeah, like on a broader sense, marketing as well. And yeah, then it was kind of 2018, 2019 where I launched it. It wasn’t like a hard launch. It kind of started with a really ugly website and no branding and then just evolved pretty quickly after that. But yeah, it kind of was just like a natural progression because there’s no way I was writing about men’s fashion for the rest of my life. Or, I mean, the beer companies—I worked with Heineken for a bit—that was okay. But yeah, like some of those other brands were just not up my alley. So yeah, having The Surfing Copywriter just—yeah, pretty simple looking back on it. But it allowed me to bring that ion for surfing, which it’s a ion. I don’t know, it’s weird to call it a ion ’cause I’ve been doing it for so long, it’s nearly just like something I’ve done all my life. So by default, I just knew so much about it and kind of merged that with my marketing and copywriting skills, and yeah, that’s how it was born. Nearly by accident, but yeah. Michael Frampton What is—define what copywriting is. Lachlan Campbell So copywriting—the best way to define it is kind of put it into contrast with something. And to do that, well, let’s say content writing, which would just be putting out content for the sake of putting out content. So writing a text or a social media caption or writing a blog article, not really having any intent behind it except maybe just to finish it and put it out there. Copywriting’s like a little bit more formulaic and there’s a little bit more of a strategy around it. And on a broader sense, it’s tapping into people’s pain points and connecting with them on an emotional level and revealing your location, your product, your service to them in a way that it’s gonna meet or solve their pain points. So yeah, I guess it’s really like writing with intent and purpose to move someone from situation A to situation C—and situation A being they have an issue or there’s something in their life they want to solve, to situation C being you have the answers to solve it. So yeah, that’s what it is in a nutshell. Michael Frampton So it’s basically the written form of marketing. Lachlan Campbell Mate, I honestly, I compare it to like—you’re like an online salesman, but you’re not talking, you’re using words to sell. But I don’t know, sometimes that can sound a little bit cheesy, but you’re essentially like trying to sell an idea, a location, a product, using words. Michael Frampton Yeah. I think marketing often has a sort of—it’s a—for some people, it’s a dirty word or has bad connotations. And that used to be my perspective, but now, you know, running my own business and learning about marketing, my definition of marketing is very different now. And I define it as: marketing is the tool that you use to describe what you do in a way so others understand what it is that you do. Lachlan Campbell Exactly. And that word understand is really important because whatever you are doing with marketing, it’s all about making a connection, right? And you can only make a connection when you’re able to understand what the people that you are marketing towards want. And yeah, I’d say copywriting, it’s also like a bit of a linchpin for other marketing methods because the written word these days—it’s a little bit different, like say copywriting back in the 1940s and 1950s where people would write literally like a one-page, 300- to 400-word ad. Whereas now, it’s a little bit more concise and condensed. But these days, it’s really the linchpin that all the other marketing material depends on because to release a newsletter, there’s gotta be some element of writing in that. Blog articles—there’s gotta be writing in that. Social media ads that use text—there’s writing within that. Social media captions—there’s writing within that as well. So yeah. Michael Frampton How does the surf world—the surf industry—compare to other industries in of their use of marketing and copywriting? Lachlan Campbell So, I would say on the whole, the grasp that most surf business owners have on marketing is quite limited. I mean, it’s hard to compare it to other industries. I’ve worked in men’s fashion and in the lifestyle industry before, and for them, it’s super competitive. But I think one thing that the surfing industry is maybe struggling with is that surfing is such a visual sport, and you can sell a lot just based on your location or how nice a product looks or the way that you present yourself. But these days—let’s say post-COVID—it’s gotten so much more competitive. And some of those bigger brands are falling to the wayside and fractured and splintered into smaller brands. And there’s so many more brands out there now that it is becoming more essential to do marketing. Whereas I reckon even five years ago, a lot of brands could get away with just posting on Instagram where their location was and what they did. But I know for sure that the amount of investment in SEO has gone up in the last few years, and new email newsletters have gone up. Even paid advertising, which is—can be traditionally something people are a little bit wary of because you’ve got to have quite a substantial budget to do that long term—that’s increased as well. So I’d say where it was even five years ago, the surf industry—and when I say surf industry, I mean everything from apparel companies to surf tourism and hospitality, to surfboard shapers, to even poncho brands, surf equipment brands, surf hardware brands—there are so many of these now that didn’t even exist before COVID. But that just kind of accelerated everything. And then with more brands, yeah, more competition. So yeah, I’d say it’s still in its basics, but it’s just getting to that point now where I’d say surf business owners are kind of thinking, Wow, to get ahead here, I need to do something a bit more proactive about getting the word out there and getting our name out there. Michael Frampton Does that mean there’s a lot of opportunity for some of these new brands to become top of mind or to really start to shine? Lachlan Campbell Yeah, there is. I think the kind of paradox there is that most of these brands are smaller brands that don’t have a massive marketing budget. I would say that a lot of them as well are run by one person or a couple of people, or a very small team. And while they do turn a profit, these are people that—they’re not looking to get rich. I don’t know. I think that’s nearly like a little bit of a new mindset amongst business owners as well, where they’re just looking for something that is a ion project, that they can make some money from, and that actually contributes something to society as well, but doesn’t suck up all their time. I mean, we’re surfers, right? Like we want to still be able to surf at the end of the day. But there is still potential in some markets. I would say there’s places—let’s say Portugal for instance, with surf tourism and surf hospitality—like it’s a super saturated market, and there are some brands here that do a really, really good job. But there are other places, like let’s say the northern area of Morocco and yeah, even some parts of Australia where there were surf businesses there, but not a lot of people are doing marketing just because they’re getting by on the strength of name and the niche that they operate in as well. But yeah, I don’t know. Competition is good. I think it’s really good because it gets more eyes on a certain category or topic or product or location. But yeah, I’d say in some areas there is still some potential, yeah, for people to get out and make a name for themselves. Michael Frampton Do you think there are sections of the surfing industry where the customer is underserved? Lachlan Campbell I don’t know if underserved is the right word, but it would depend on what part of the surf industry we’re talking about as well. If we want to break it down into, let’s say, surf camps— Lachlan Campbell Some, in some countries, there’s such a broad array of different types of surf camps to meet all different needs, right? There’s the ones for budget backpackers, then there’s the more luxurious ones. But in that same area, maybe another surf business starting up isn’t going to be able to meet the same needs for that broad range of people. Again, it would have to depend on the type of businesses within the surf industry and the location as well. Michael Frampton It seems like the hard goods side of things—that’s pretty much saturated, you know? Wetsuits, boards, and stuff. Lachlan Campbell Yeah. I mean, there’s always these niche products coming out. Like there’s a company that’s just started up in Europe, I believe, somewhere, which is doing—it’s called The Fin Library, I believe—there’s a plug for these guys. And they’re doing, instead of having to buy brand new fins every time you want to change your fins, you can actually rent fins from them. There’s also new surf helmets coming onto the market that look more like the old soft rugby helmets that maybe me and you are more familiar with. And then there’s also a guy that I saw the other day in Australia that’s doing a special plastic case just for holding your wax and your wax comb, which on some level you think, you can just chuck it somewhere, like a little Tupperware container. But when you see the product, you’re like, okay, it’s actually pretty clever. So there’s all these little niche brands that are coming out, and I don’t think their intention—for the most part—is to kind of dominate the world. They know their place within the market and I think that’s actually where the beauty lies, because instead of growing to great heights and scaling and becoming these huge brands—which, how strong are their foundations to start off with—they’re just getting deeper on their products and just knowing really well what their customer base is and how they can better meet their needs. So, I mean, I like that. I see myself like that as well. Like I’ve had opportunities to grow before and bring on a team and stuff, and then I just thought, what’s the point? Growth for me is more about maybe doing some courses or deepening my knowledge of AI or something, just where I can better serve the people that I’m already looking after and help them get more bang for their buck, I guess. Michael Frampton Yeah. Well, it sounds like there’s some good innovation going on in the hard goods, and it sounds like there is definitely room for growth in of surfing experiences—different types of and more places where surf camps are happening. Do you think there’s an increasing demand? Like, people want to go on these trips and unique trips and— Lachlan Campbell It’s evolving, right? So if we say just the standard surf experience model is: you come, you stay, you get food, you get boards, you get transport to and from the beach, and you get equipment. That’s the bread-and-butter surf experience model. And then there’s variations on that. I think one thing that’s interesting now is the rise of surf retreats and these surf experience providers collaborating with wellness coaches and mental health coaches and resilience coaches and people that—these are skills that definitely help in the water, but carry over into real life as well. That’s becoming a big trend. And I think, maybe not so much recently, but let’s say in the last couple of years, like female-only surf retreats as well. So yeah, I would say that these surf experience providers—as they evolve—they’re maybe just adding new collaborations and new retreat experiences or surf experiences to their existing offerings. And I think that’s cool because you’re not actually changing anything to the fundamental structure of your business there. You still have the same kind of accommodation and services and packages, but you are adding something extra by way of a collaboration. And let’s assume that they also have a following on social media or have a bit of a profile in the surf industry as well—mental health coaches within that, coming on with the surf experience providers, that’s just one example. But there’s others. There’s fitness trainers, which is the more traditional one. Wellness experts doing the ice baths and the meditation. Yoga is like the OG one, right? Being added to the surf experiences—that was one of the first ones. But yeah, it’s an evolution. And I think we’re at the point now where again, that’s being driven by competition. And the more surf brands are out there, the more doing kind of the same thing, the more there is a requirement to be seen as doing something different, which causes you to think further afield. So yeah, it’s cool. It’s definitely changing. It’s maybe just now starting to build a bit of momentum post-pandemic, because it was a bit crazy there after the pandemic. I mean, numbers for everything were short—like retail was going crazy, surf hardware was going crazy, board sales were through the roof, bookings were through the roof. And then, yeah, last year and the year before, things were slowing down. And I think now they’re correcting themselves, I would say. So it’s gonna be an interesting year for innovation for sure. Michael Frampton If there was a surf camp that, like you described, had the standard set up, a good option for them might be to reach out to someone like me and say, “Hey look, we’ll pay you to come and spend a week with this surf group in November and you can do some coaching and some health and wellness stuff.” And then that gives them a point of difference to their existing camp as well as access to my audience, for example. Lachlan Campbell Exactly. Yeah. That’s a smart move. That’s something that’s definitely trending. I mean, you look at the guys that have been doing it for ages, like Surf Simply—they do everything. They’re doing everything in-house. They’re booked six months in advance at least. Michael Frampton Yeah. Lachlan Campbell And they’re not cheap. I think there’s a lot of surfers with plenty of money, especially when you look at a company like Tropic Surf, for example, what they provide. Michael Frampton Yeah, of course. Lachlan Campbell That’s next level. So yeah, there is a definitely—you’ve got your backpackers at the bottom end, and then you’ve got Tropic Surf at the top end, and there’s obviously a huge demand. Otherwise these companies wouldn’t even exist. Lachlan Campbell No, there is. And I say these little add-ons and these extra collaborations that these brands do are not necessarily the defining factor of why people book, but I think especially for surf experience providers—so your surf schools, your surf camps, surf retreats, surf houses—you can’t ignore the face-to-face experience that people have. I think that’s… if you’ve got the money and you’ve got a bit of backing, you can build a pretty nice place, you can build a nice camp, a nice surf retreat, you can stock it with all nice boards—everyone can do that. It’s nearly like a bit of an equalizer if you have the money. But the people—they make a huge difference as well. I would say, I know I’ve done—for a lot of, well, not just surf experience providers but for other clients as well—we do guest interviews or customer interviews and they tell us about their experience. I think the final paragraph where they sign off just about something positive about the brand or the company that they’re talking about, it generally comes back to the people. That’s what—for me, that’s the best thing about working in the surfing world. Besides the freedom, it’s the people you meet. We’re not, you know, we’re not working in like the financial world or the real estate world, which can be a bit sharky sometimes. You’re working in the surfing world, and people on a whole are pretty cool. And we all have something in common, so easy to build rapport. Michael Frampton Yeah. Well, it sounds like your business—you’re providing more than just marketing. It sounds like you’re quite clued into the trends in surfing business as a whole. There’s plenty of surfing advice or surf business advice in your head going on. Lachlan Campbell I think that’s because when I am working with a client, I’m getting pretty deep with them and pretty invested in their own journey. And it’s always the same. These are people that are running businesses that they’re proud of. These businesses are like their babies, right? Like, they really deeply care for them. So for them, running it and being quite hands-on with it is important. But there comes a point where you just can’t give 100% in all areas, right? So when I come on, sometimes it’s like white-label copywriting where I’m just working under a marketing manager or a marketing consultant that’s with the surf brand. But a lot of the time, my favorite arrangement is like a retainer situation where they put me on for 9, 12, longer months in order to help them out. And for me, that works way better too because we get to know each other, we build a bit of a relationship. I can see more of their business and why they started it, which makes writing about it much easier, much more natural. So yeah, I’m not just called—I mean I’m called The Surfing Copywriter—but I would say I’m not just coming in and just “you give me what you want to write and I’ll do it for you.” I feel like I contribute to the business and to the growth. And you are just like a sounding board as well for the client sometimes, which is nice. Because I think they have so many ideas and so many things they want to do, but executing it can be a real issue. And it’s a shame because a lot of the ideas are—these are generally people not coming from a marketing background—so their ideas are actually innovative and special and, yeah, I would even say some of them are nearly even quirky. But it’s cool because they’re coming at it with originality, and for me, that kind of makes my job easier for sure. Michael Frampton Now you mentioned AI. How’s that changing the game? Lachlan Campbell Mate, absolute game changer. For me, it’s like having your own personal secretary, right? Having someone there, like a little personal assistant that you can bounce ideas off, that can help with structures and outlines and frameworks. I use it for writing articles when I have a little bit of a mental block. I still feel like—if you ask AI to write you an article on surfing, it’s gonna come out like an intern that just learned to surf six months ago wrote it. Because it’s still a niche topic. It’s not so great at pulling contest results, specific events in the surfing world—everything’s a little bit generalized. It’s going to get better at that for sure. But it’s nearly like just, yeah, having another person working for you. So the end result for clients—it just makes the result for them so much better because I’m able to free up time that I would’ve otherwise spent maybe writing or working on an outline or something to work on something else for them, to maybe refine it even further. So yeah, mate, I love it. Bring it on. Michael Frampton Yeah, bring it on. Is that a mistake that you see—business owners that are trying to do it all themselves, who are relying on AI to write an article? Is that a mistake that's happening? Lachlan Campbell Well, it depends. Like, at a certain point—when you're just starting out, right? Say you've just started a brand and you are wearing so many hats, and you know you've gotta do marketing and you know you've gotta get some content out and you want to do some blog articles—if you have to use AI in that situation to help you, yeah, use it for sure. But just maybe try and weave a little bit of your own personality or a little bit of nuance into it because I can spot—I think most people can spot—an AI-written article, especially on surfing, very quickly. Michael Frampton Yeah. Lachlan Campbell So yeah, I understand. For some business owners, it's important, but if you have the budget to pay someone to do it for you—because at the end of the day, it still takes time. Let’s just take an article, for example. You’ve gotta research, you’ve gotta write the outline, you’ve gotta actually create the content, you’ve gotta proofread it, you’ve gotta do the linking, you’ve gotta source images, you’ve gotta put it into the backend system, you’ve gotta either schedule it, publish it, you’ve gotta play around with all the stuff within the backend system—so the AI can take care of one part of that, but there’s still a whole process around it. So no, for sure—for the early business owner that’s just started out—it’s probably a godsend. But I think if you are a little bit more advanced, you can invest the time into having someone do it properly. Michael Frampton Yeah. Do you use it as well, like—we’re using it right now for note taking for that? Lachlan Campbell Yeah. It’s awesome. I used to hate taking notes for phone calls. Michael Frampton I use it for, like you said, to bounce ideas off. For outlines of stuff. And I think just getting better at the prompts you use. Like, “Hey, can you edit this for grammar, punctuation—” Lachlan Campbell Yeah. Michael Frampton “And clarity, keeping all original concepts and words as they are, please.” Lachlan Campbell Yeah. Michael Frampton Rather than just say, “Edit this,” because then it can just change the whole thing sometimes. Lachlan Campbell Of course. Michael Frampton So yeah, the prompts that you give it, that’s a—it’s a learning curve. Lachlan Campbell Yeah, I think you don’t have to—you just have to be specific about what you want from it. And actually tell it that. I mean, I use it a lot. I actually—I don’t know if you do this as well—do you ever write “please” as well when you ask it to do something? Michael Frampton Yeah. Lachlan Campbell I don’t know. It’s like weird. It still—I don’t know, it feels sometimes a little bit like foreign, just typing in the commands and stuff. But yeah, no, for that, it’s perfect. Because there’s still—I mean I know there’s like a lot of surfing is obviously multicultural and there’s people that maybe speak Spanish as a first language. They’re writing or doing something for an English client or an English-speaking client that markets to an English demographic. And for that, they can write something in kind of Spanglish and then just ask AI to clean it up, and, you know, so super helpful there for sure. Michael Frampton I wonder if like, if you do say “please,” would it write with a more sort of… polite tone? Lachlan Campbell Yeah. Michael Frampton Yeah, I think it picks up on your style over time. Lachlan Campbell Yeah. I don’t know. Maybe I’m just—maybe I’m just strange about it. Maybe I’m just being overly polite to it. Maybe I’m worried about the AI overlords coming and taking over the world in a hundred years, and maybe they spare me if I’m polite now. Michael Frampton Oh, yeah, yeah. Lachlan Campbell No, I also use the voice—you can literally talk to it now. Michael Frampton Yeah. Lachlan Campbell It’s pretty— Michael Frampton How’s it go with the Kiwi accent? Lachlan Campbell Oh, I definitely have to sound my words—speak a little slower and— Michael Frampton Enunciate a bit better? Lachlan Campbell Yeah, exactly. Yeah. But it’s pretty amazing. Michael Frampton That’s cool. Yeah, it’s really fun. Lachlan Campbell Yeah. Michael Frampton And even for—in the kitchen these days with ingredients and recipes. Just being able to punch in, “Hey, I want to make a chicken curry, but I only have these ingredients. How can I substitute?” and— Lachlan Campbell Yeah. Michael Frampton Yeah. Lachlan Campbell I don’t know if my cooking has improved, but it’s definitely made it a bit easier. Michael Frampton Oh, it’s interesting, technology. Lachlan Campbell Yeah. Bloody oath. Michael Frampton Yeah. Alright, so where can people go to find out more about you and what you do? Lachlan Campbell My website, which is www.thesurfingcopywriter.com. Instagram at @thesurfingcopywriter. This podcast is gonna be a good one. I guess I’ve got another podcast there with someone else that people can listen to. And there’s a few articles and interviews online. And the good thing about having a name like The Surfing Copywriter—great for the SEO. So if you just type in “surfing” and “copywriting,” I think you’ll get some hits on me too. But yeah, on my website too, you can sign up to my newsletter and I’m doing a weekly newsletter, which is—I don’t know, maybe more letter than news. It’s a little bit more personal, from the desk kind of dispatch. But yeah, you can find me there and yeah, find me in the water as well. Michael Frampton Yeah, okay. And so is there some business advice for people in the surf industry in that newsletter? Lachlan Campbell Yeah, there is. Every week it’s different. Sometimes it’s just kind of stuff that I’ve learned from working with clients. Sometimes it’s just musings. Sometimes it’s just complete and utter garbage, but there’s something there every week. Take it how you want. I think you’re always gonna get something out of it, for sure. And obviously some of those newsletters, they’re backed off my blog articles too. Like I’ve been writing blog articles now for The Surfing Copywriter for, I dunno, six or seven years or something. So there’s a lot of content there you can go back through and check out. Ultimately, if anyone wants to chat, just get in touch and we’ll see what we can do. Michael Frampton Yeah, well I’ll have links to all of that stuff in the show notes. What does your ideal client look like? Lachlan Campbell Oh mate. Maybe one that pays on time. No—someone that’s ionate about what they’re doing. Someone that is maybe considering more than just the profit side of things. I mean, it’s tricky because I’ve worked with startups before and they’re always people with a real vision and a dream, but they don’t necessarily have the budget. And so sometimes I have to weigh my own schedule, my current clients, with what they want to achieve on the marginal budget that they have. But it’s honestly just someone that’s really ionate about what they’re doing, that’s invested in the company. They’re not running a business from, you know, a non-surf endemic area and they don’t really have an active role in it. I want to know that they’re kind of on board and kind of, I guess, a reflection of how I run my business, where it’s a little bit more personal. It’s not a production line. We’re actually doing things to improve people’s lives and not forgetting the bigger picture—that surfing is an awesome pastime, it’s an awesome lifestyle, and whatever content we put out, we’re connecting people to that. And maybe even people that never even knew surfing existed, which is kind of cool to think about. So yeah. Michael Frampton Yep. Oh, definitely. Well, I think the definition of a business is—it helps you help people. And a surfing business helps surfers. So if you’re a surfing business owner and you want to help more surfers, it’s a pretty good goal. And Lachlan can help you do that. Links to everything him in the show notes. Thank you for your time, man. Appreciate it. Lachlan Campbell Thanks, Mike. Cheers, mate. 114 The Surfing Copywriter: How ion and Strategy Can Power Your Surf Business For the ionate surfer—whether you're a weekend warrior, a surf dad, or an older surfer—this podcast is all about better surfing and deeper stoke. With expert surf coaching, surf training, and surfing tips, we’ll help you catch more waves, refine your paddling technique, and perfect your pop up on a surfboard. From surf workouts to handling wipeouts, chasing bigger waves, and mastering surf technique, we’re here to make sure you not only improve but truly enjoy surfing more—so you can get more out of every session and become a wiser surfer. Go from Beginner or intermediate Surfer to advanced. 115u4d